This is a copy of a post from a member of the Pointing Dog Journal forum. It was in rsponse to a question about teaching backing. It goes on to explain the basis of our training method. I titled it:
The Bird Is The Teacher
To chime in on this thread, I think there are several levels of "correct methods" here. Always remember there is more than one way to train a dog. I'm afraid my particular method follows more along the lines of what ****** is talking about. Having tried several over the years, I think it is by far the most effective as it is simply a continuation of previous methods of training. It's a simple matter of one building block upon another.
My method of teaching backing is a continuation of "stop to flush". I teach a dog stop to flush, then transition to backing, as soon as I am certain he sees the dog on point, I pop the bird and the dog stops. You don't have to whoa the dog, you don't have to pop him with the CC, he stops on his own because the bird made him. Do this a half dozen times and the dog will stop as soon as he sees the dog, sometimes sooner. On the few tough cases I have had over the last thirty plus years, I have brought in two or three dogs to point and honor, that gets them to stop every time. I've never had to work any harder than that.
I've used other methods, several of them, as I was training dogs in the pre-collar/auto-launcher days. So believe me when I say this is a great method that is simple and effective. Simple and effective being two key words that should apply to most of your training methods.
Why does it apply here? Because I have also had dogs that would'nt back the real thing after their introduction to backing using an auto-backer/silhouette. And I've also had dogs that took a bit to recognize either dark or light colored dogs. But simply putting the problem dog on point and popping the bird fixes the problem with just a few birds, it's never taken me longer. The reason is they are trained to stop to flush, they quickly associate ANY dog on point, regardless of color, as having a bird. I agree with ****** there. There is ample evidence to support the fact that they know a dog on point has a bird. Have you ever had a dog false point and have a dog come up and back it? What happens when you cut them loose again? The backing dog immediately runs over and sniffs around where the pointing dog was to see what it was smelling. That happens practically every time. Or how about when the bird or covey has moved off and you cut them both loose to relocate? The backing dog runs over and joins in the hunt to track down the birds. I've had the backing dog nail the missing birds as often as the pointing dog. They know exactly what the dog on point was doing and why, and they want to be a part of it. Don't sell the intelligence of a good birddog short, a well trained, experienced dog is very savvy to what is going on.
You say when you were doing backing drills ******, that you would bring a dog in on the pointing dog and "get him to back". I don't know how you are doing that, there must be some sort of training method involved. If, as you state, you are not using any birds to train the backing dog, I would assume you are simply stopping him with the checkcord or whoa. So the dog is stopping because you are making him, not the bird. Again, I am assuming here, but if you are making him stop with the CC, then his focus is on you, behind him, and there is very little association with the dog on point in front of him. I'm sure it works, as many methods do, but I question the effectiveness of it. You and the checkcord have taken the place of the bird as the training tool and I never agree with that. Just my opinion of course.
Understanding the cardinal rule of birddog effectiveness is the knowing that the dog must be bold, independent, and entirely self-sufficient. It has to be able to make the right decisions on it's own without you being in proximity, or even in sight. It must know where and how to hunt without any direction from you. In order to do that it must understand that the bird is the ultimate teacher and will correct any mistakes it makes without you even being around. This is a battle of wits and skill between your birddog and the bird, and you can only do so much to help them with it, then they are on their own. Whenever possible, you must let the bird be the teacher and get out of the way. Backing is a perfect example of that time. If a dog is taught when to stop, when to point, and when to back by you and a CC, what is it going to do when you are'nt around? It does'nt know the bird won't tolerate any mistakes.
To give you my take on your questions******. When I release a pointing dog to relocate, I also release the backing dog. The goal here is to find the birds and pin them, nothing more or less and I don't care which dog does it. The backing dog does'nt move until released, but I do release it to help. With my more experienced dogs that relocate on their own, my backing dogs also release on their own and without fail, join in the hunt. That's self-sufficiency and independance, which is exactly what you want. They know their job, I shut my mouth and let them do it.
I often shoot the bird that has been pointed. While in training, the pointing dog is the only dog that gets to retrieve, it is that way in competition, it is that way in hunting. They made the find, they get the retrieve. In hunting, I will also send the backing dog if multiple birds fell. The goal here is not to lose a bird and to heck with the niceties.
I can't concieve of an effective training method that does'nt use birds. Birds are what we are training for, not using them is putting them in an unrealistic scenario. As soon as they get into the real thing they are in unfamiliar territory instead of well seasoned campaigners.
And I agree that backing dogs SHOULD be pointing. They are pointing because the dog in front of them is pointing and they know what happens next, a bird comes up. No dog that is simply "standing" in the backing position will have any sort of intensity or style if you whoa them or CC them into position. I've seen it a hundred times (or more). The dogs with great intensity and style are on point while honoring and anticipate a bird and some shooting. I have never seen a dog standing rigidly and intensely on point after being whoa'ed. I've seen a few that stand very still and don't move, but not pointing intensely. Only birds can teach intensity, not a checkcord.
Sorry for the horrendously long post.
Apparently I had more then two cents worth to say on the matter.
God Bless